[00:00]
if it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you. Most people don't wake up one day and decide to just start something new or make a big change. Usually there's something else that's happening in their life that kind of force them to make a change. You know, maybe, a divorce, you know, kind of jolts you, you have to make a change, right? Because the marriage is ending and you have to figure out, what are you going to do next? It's the same thing with jobs.
Right. Yeah.
I always know again from the past and from my training, when you get to the other side and you look back, that thing that happened was a gift. And because if it hadn't happened, it wouldn't have been the inspiration either to, you know, to survive or to make that, that next move.
Mm-hmm. Right.
So I believe part of it is just, believe and I know there's something good on the other side and it's also enjoying the journey. ⁓ Every day is gonna present some new challenge or you'll meet some new person or you'll have some new experience. I actually think that's pretty
In this episode, you will hear a line that has stayed with me since the moment Cheryl said it. If it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you. She said it while talking about the moments in life that force us to move even when we're not ready. A divorce, a relocation, the end of a job you thought would last a little bit longer. Most people don't wake up one morning and choose reinvention. Sometimes these things happen and you have to decide who you'll be on the other side. That's the heart of office hours. The show brings in experts who understand what transition really looks like, not the polished version, but the part where you're scared, unsure, and trying to figure out what comes next. These are the conversations that are meant to help you take that next step if you're unemployed or between roles, and to remind you that challenge and change often arrive together. Today's guest, Cheryl Dillon, has spent nearly two decades working with people in transition. She's a longtime divorce mediator, a certified coach, a founder of a midlife women's community, and a professional who's guided clients through some of the most difficult identity shifts anyone could ever face. Here's my conversation with Cheryl Dillon. Let's get it.
Welcome to Life Between Titles. I'm your host, Savan, and today I've got my friend Cheryl. Cheryl, how are you?
I'm good, how are you?
I'm doing fantastic. Cheryl, you had sent me ⁓ a list of things that described your life. And I want to kick off our conversation by asking you something about your houseplants. So you've got 35 houseplants. I imagine they're houseplants. What do you think inspired you to have as many houseplants as you do?
I'm a hoarder? No. You know, I am originally from the East Coast and, you know, I lived in Chicago, New Jersey, in those places, you the seasons change. And so it was never really possible for me to keep houseplants alive because if
Hahaha Uh-huh.
there was sun coming into the window in a couple of months, then the rest of the year it wasn't. And if that plant needed sun all year round, obviously it was a challenge to keep it thriving. And so I just kind of gave up. then I moved out to Southern California about seven years ago. And that was one of the first things I did once we got settled into our house is I started.
Mm-hmm.
getting some plants, you know, to decorate and because the weather is more consistent here, so it was easier to keep them healthy. And then because I was learning how to take care of them and I was getting very confident ⁓ in my ability to do that, you know, I'd have a plant that would live, you know, more than a couple of days. So that was a big win. And ⁓
Yeah. Right.
And there's so many garden centers around here. So I just was so interested. I just find them all so beautiful. And it was always, you know, let me get another one and see if I could take care of that one. So I was just kind of snowballed that way. And now there are plants in almost every room of the house. Some rooms have, you know, up to five or six plants in them. And... I, again, you know, if you need a good confidence boost, for me anyway, that was a big one because some of these plants I've had now for, you know, six years. And so, you know, pretty proud of myself. And again, you know, they're beautiful and they really add to the environment.
Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I agree. I've loved... plants more now in my 40s than I ever have. And when we moved down to Southern California from Washington and then back up here, ⁓ transporting those plants was a pain in the butt. I just tried to get them in a place where they're not falling over and breaking and all these things. But the amount of joy they give you is incredible. What's your favorite house plant that you have?
Yeah. ⁓ I have a few, but one of my favorite ones, I don't know if you can see it in the screen, you can probably see a little tiny bit of it. It's a weeping fig ⁓ tree here. that one, again, I've had it for a whole bunch of years. It's in the correct location ⁓ for the kind of sun that it needs. it just keeps growing. And I just love how it looks very delicate.
okay, okay. Yeah.
and but yet, you know, so beautiful to look at. There's different colors in the leaves and I've upgraded its pot probably three times since I've had it, but I would say that that's among my favorites.
I'm always interested in trying to figure out the drivers for people to commit to something ⁓ long term, such as being a good plant owner or a plant parent. What do you think? owning all these plants and taking care of all these plants for all these years ⁓ is saying about who you are as a person. Do you think there's something there that really is driving, making sure you're taking care of these things? Because plants can die pretty easily if you neglect them and you fail to pay attention to them. ⁓ But for you, what do you think that would be?
Well, you know, I don't have human children and ⁓ you know, I've always had dogs. I have a dog now, Wrigley, and you know, I take care of her, of course. And the plants, you know, they're like my children also in a lot of ways. And ⁓ you know, for me, it's kind of relaxing. It's part of my morning routine. I have an app that reminds me which ones need care.
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah.
And, you know, sometimes I'm busy or I'm like, ⁓ don't have time for this, but I of course have to make the time because they're living things. And if you neglect them, you know, obviously they're not going to thrive. So I think the commitment is just, I take responsibility for keeping them alive and they beautify my home. And I obviously, you know, it's nurturing. ⁓ it helps slow me down a little bit cause I'm a, you know, type a personality and it's kind of like a win all around again, the beauty and they, they just look so pretty in here and I feel, responsible for keeping them that way. And it's really just, it's just become, ⁓ you know, just part of, part of my routine and, and part of my life, I don't even really give it much of a second thought. It's just, I wouldn't not do it. So.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. Cheryl, I take it back a little bit and talk about where you grew up. You mentioned you were on the East Coast. Whereabouts were you in the East Coast?
I grew up in New Jersey.
Okay, what was that like?
It was great. I grew ⁓ up in a suburban neighborhood and lived on a cul-de-sac, walked to elementary school and ⁓ the area, was lots of kids my age. ⁓ You know, you know, it's funny. I've been away from New Jersey now for, quite a while, but, I go back and I have a lot of friends that are still there and I just kind of pick up where I left off. I obviously, ⁓ you know, I, I drive fast, I talk fast. I'm pretty type A, so I blend right in and, ⁓ I, I definitely, you know, appreciate.
you Yeah.
[10:03]
⁓ all the food and the pace and the culture and the lifestyle. It was a really fun place to grow up and I feel lucky to have done so. I do miss it now, but I certainly don't miss some of the weather. And I certainly don't miss the high taxes and the congestion and whole bunch of, I certainly don't miss hurricanes, but. ⁓
Right.
But yeah, overall, it was pretty great.
What do you think are some of the common, I've got a couple of friends from New Jersey, and I feel like there are certain characteristics that they have that nobody else in the entire world has, but what do you think that Jersey charisma is? If you could describe it, what would that be?
Ha I mean, I think, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of thoughts about people from the East coast that they're very direct and they say what's on their mind. If you ask their opinion, they're going to give it to you. They don't sugarcoat anything. You know, I know that's a stereotype. Not everyone is that way, but I definitely fall into that bucket. And
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You
You know, I feel like, you know, having lived on the East Coast and also in Chicago and now California, I've seen, you know, a lot of different cultures, ⁓ you know, the way people stereotypically behave with each other. I don't even know if it's stereotypical, it's just conducive of the culture. You know, on the East Coast, you didn't give it a second thought about being direct or saying what was on your mind. ⁓
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.
when I lived in Chicago, it was a bit of a culture shock because ⁓ that I think was pretty jolting for other people to be around me and for me to be that way. My impression quickly was that people are very friendly and they generally maybe wouldn't tell you exactly what's on their mind unless it was a very close relationship.
Right? Right?
were, you know, and, you know, we would say that, you know, people on the East Coast, they're, they're like, M&Ms, like they, they have a hard shell, but once you break through it, they're soft on the inside, you know, they'll your best friend and you know, you really bond. ⁓ But in the Midwest, ⁓ people are more like peaches. They're soft on the outside, but they're kind of hard on, it's hard to get to know them hard to really like dive in and
Yeah. You
get to know of that inner stuff, but everybody's super warm and friendly. And then in California, I'm not really sure what to make of it. Certainly not direct. I don't know about friendly, it depends. It's pretty, are pretty laid back and...
Right. Yep. Yep.
It's just different. I think I can appreciate all of those things. And I think it's a little bit of a benefit for me to have lived in Chicago and then out here because it kind of softened my edges a little bit. I'm still pretty edgy, but definitely softened my edges a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you about Southern California. When my wife and I lived there, coming from Seattle and also working in D.C. I could see all the different types of character traits and Southern California is an enigma to me. I think people want to be want to be friendly, but I don't know if they know how in some ways and that's no knock on people that that that are from SoCal. I've got a ton of friends and family that are still out there, but I just think that the the attitude towards how you communicate with other people is different and I'm not sure sort of like what driving sort of like the differences between somebody from Jersey or New York or DC versus Seattle and Seattle definitely has its quirks as well ⁓ and Southern California.
Mm-hmm. definitely made a lot of good friends out here. know, many of them are from Chicago and the East Coast. But I have made a lot of friends who are from California. again, I'm not really sure, you know.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
why the culture feels so differently to me than other places I've lived. But I do know that there's a lot of really great people out here and maybe it takes a little bit longer for it to feel comfortable and to open up and yeah.
Right? Right? Yeah, agreed. ⁓ So were you born in New Jersey or did you just grow up there?
Yeah, I was born there.
Okay, okay. How was it like as a teenager ⁓ growing up out there?
like, can you be a little more specific? Like what, what? Yeah.
Yeah, are there certain things that you remember growing up in New Jersey as a teenager, let's just say high school, ⁓ that really helped establish who you are as an adult? Are there certain events or gatherings or people or friend groups that really sort of impacted who you are now?
I think all of our life experiences shape us, ⁓ you know, no matter where we're from, it, you know, a lot of it is our parents or how we're raised, our friends, ⁓ you know, the media, ⁓ our own beliefs and values, some that we've inherited from our parents and some that are our own. I think for me, ⁓ I was a pretty outgoing, you know, social kid. I wanted to be popular and I found myself in these groups of friends who were, you know, very smart and also popular. You know, we were a big group, but I think that
Mm-hmm. We all did. Right.
I guess ⁓ when I look back on it, I think maybe I would have rather been friends with the nerds ⁓ versus the popular kids because I kind of was really more a nerd myself. But really, all kidding aside, I just learned that sometimes when you want to be in a particular group,
Yeah.
you modify yourself to fit in. And that's maybe, you're not being necessarily authentic. And those are some things that have really shaped me because a lot of for a lot of years, I really couldn't kind of shake that off. And, depending on what group I was around, maybe would dim parts of myself to to fit in. But
Mm-hmm.
In the more recent years, I've just had an awareness of a lot of that and I've been actually working really hard to not do that and to just appreciate, know, not everyone is gonna like you and that's okay, that you have to like yourself and you have to be comfortable in your own skin. And a lot of that comes from, you know, letting your light shine and not making parts of you smaller. you know, just to be accepted by another group of people.
it's so hard for teenagers and young adults to be as reflective as as I don't know if they should be or need to be. Like I also remember as a kid, I had pockets of different cliques of friends and they were vastly different. I was just trying to figure out where I fit in half the time and where I needed to spend my time. And it's just, it's hard because there's so many different pressures, From your family, your friends, the community and all these things. For you growing up there, what do you think were some of the things that inspired you as a teenager, as a young adult? you mentioned that you moved out to Chicago. Were there things that inspired you to say, I'm done with Jersey, it's in the rear view, I'm now going and carving out my own name and moving to a different state?
I liked living in New Jersey. I, I actually always wanted to live in Southern California. ⁓ you know, from when I was young, I don't even know why I had a tee shirt that had like a, a sunset on it and these, you know, birds and it was just, it said California on it. And I don't know, maybe that made some sort of an impression, ⁓ but
Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
from a young age I always imagined what it would be like to live out here but things just never really lined up for it along along the way. ⁓ You know I had a career in New Jersey, my family was there, my friends were all there and ⁓ I actually ⁓ I had gone through a divorce ⁓ after a ⁓ shorter-ish term marriage and after the divorce I thought
Right.
[20:11]
Okay, I'm going to just pick up now and go go to California. And that year, there were a lot of fires. And I'm terrified of that. I want to say it was like 2003. I feel like I'm somewhere around that time. And there were a lot of fires that year. And I really was scared of that. And so I didn't move. But ⁓ it's kind of a good thing because I met the person who
Yeah. What year was that? Okay.
became my husband and we've been married 20 years. And so if I had moved at that point, ⁓ I never probably would have met him. But after we got married in 05, we both were thinking about living someplace that had just a little more of a social life, more culture, more things to do. And like I said, we were living in a pretty suburban area.
Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Right?
⁓ near
Right?
Princeton in New Jersey. And ⁓ we didn't have children. And the town where we were living was very focused on the soccer and the schools and kids. And it was Funderful. again, we were just looking for just a little bit more action. ⁓ so ⁓ knowing New York City, we knew that was a little too big for us. It was a little too overwhelming. We didn't want to move there.
Right?
My husband went to college in Philadelphia. We knew that, know, Philly's lovely, but we didn't want to go there. So we just sort of started exploring different parts of the country. And then we would each kind of like rank certain priorities, you know, what we were looking for. Of course, nothing lined up. We were looking for two completely different sets of criteria. But ultimately, you know, we both really liked
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
and we decided to move there. And so it was really more of an intention to live in a city because of where we were in life. We were in our mid thirties and we were just looking to have more walkability and be able to go to concerts and ⁓ museums and just have more activities that were close by. so we lived there and we lived there for five years.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
We lived right by Wrigley Field and we were there the year the Cubs won the World Series. So was like right in our neighborhood. It was so, so much fun. We're huge Cubs fans and ⁓ it was really, really fun, a fun five years. But again, the winters are pretty rough and it was kind of taken a toll on my mental health, you know, just to have some.
Woohoo! Wow. Yeah, agreed.
so many months of cold and gray. And so that was kind of the impetus to finally move. And ⁓ I finally got to California.
Is Chicago a lot more gray and cold than New Jersey? Like, relatively?
Yeah, I think so. You know, the thing about, again, the climate has changed everywhere over the years, but you know, what I remember growing up in New Jersey, there would just be certain months where it would start to get cold. You know, you'd have a couple of months of snow. And then it was always like, ⁓ you know, what is it like?
Okay. Mm-hmm.
April showers, bring May flowers. So, you you'd have the rain in April, but then in May, mid May, around Mother's Day, would start to get nice, it would be spring. So you could rely on it more and even years that there wasn't snow, even when it was cold, the sun was out. And so it just felt a little bit, you know, it was difficult, but it was a little more tolerable. And it was more predictable and
Yeah, right.
Chicago, you know, all the years we were there was different because the first year we were there, it was the polar vortex and that was in 2013. And that was record snow, record cold, you know, it started early. It was a very long season. There were other years we were there where there wouldn't be a lot of snow, but it just the sky was just gray. And sometimes that would start, you know, sometimes it would snow on
⁓ yeah. for.
Halloween or before Halloween. And one year we had friends come out. Yeah, one year we had friends come out for Memorial Day weekend and we literally had to lend them winter coats. ⁓ so it was really just, you just really didn't know what you were going to get. And it would be, ⁓ you know, seven or eight months of, of just, you know, not pleasant weather. I certainly wasn't used to it. There's plenty of people who live there.
that's too soon. That's too soon. ⁓ man.
It was no big deal at all, but it was, it's difficult for me.
⁓ sure. I'll want to maybe take it two steps back and talk about your, your husband a little bit and your marriage. It, ⁓ when we talked earlier, it, ⁓ it seemed like you guys have this very strong marriage and that you also work together. I know that sometimes when people are married and they work together, ⁓ that could cause rifts that could cause a lot of. stress and anxiety, for you it sounded like it worked out pretty well just in terms of the overall, you know, scheme of how things worked. Tell me a little bit more about how that came to be.
⁓ Okay, well, ⁓ as I said, you know, we got married in our mid 30s. We were both working in corporate environments. New Jersey, you know, it's pharmaceutical. It's pretty big, you know, big pharma capital and ⁓
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I was working as a recruiter in a pharmaceutical company and a number of them, was a consultant and he was working in also a corporate environment and then he had gotten a job also at ⁓ Johnson and Johnson, one of the pharma companies. ⁓ we were just really wanting to get out of that ⁓ rat race.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
you know, we wanted to be self-employed. We wanted to do something different. We, of course, were much younger. We had a lot of, a lot more energy back then. But somebody that my husband was working with, his father owned a franchise and it was a cooking school for children. And it was brand new. ⁓ And it was created by the guy, I don't know if you're familiar with Curves. It's like a women's gym.
Mm-hmm. Right. ⁓ yeah, women's only gym. Yep, pink, pink ⁓ all over.
Yeah, so that guy, it was these two women from Baylor College and they had the idea and then they teamed up with this guy, Gary, and then ⁓ they franchised it and it was called Young Chefs Academy. so we heard of it again through this colleague ⁓ of my husband's and then we met with his father. We went to go look at their location and learn more about it and I don't know, just kind of spoke to us. It was just so different.
⁓
⁓ we, we were able, you know, my husband and I both have a lot of different kinds of, ⁓ skills and they were very complimentary to running a business. And so, ⁓ and you know, he loves to cook. I, at the time I loved to bake. And so we just kind of went for it. ⁓ so we, we, we opened a cooking school for children and, ⁓ we worked together and it was a lot of hard work and it was a lot of fun.
Mm-hmm.
the key to working together was having job descriptions so that we wouldn't be tripping on each other. So were certain things that he was responsible for, certain things I was responsible for, and that really worked out. And we ran that together for, I think, just a short time, like two years or so. ⁓ And then what was happening was the housing bubble. I don't know if you remember, like back in 07 and 08.
Right? Mm-hmm. wait, yep, for sure.
Yep. the price of food was going up. The price of gas was going up. It was affecting our business because there was only so much you could charge for the classes and the birthday parties and everything. Just, you know, we kind of saw the writing on the wall and we sold it. And then I went back to corporate because I hadn't been out too long where I had lost my skills on my network. So
Mm-hmm.
I went back in, I took a contract and he ⁓ did a lot of research and soul searching, like, you what was he gonna do next? ⁓ And then he wound up ⁓ utilizing all the skills he had in a different way. He became a divorce mediator. ⁓ He had a background in contract negotiations and finance and, you know, all the skills that lend itself to mediation. ⁓
Right? Right.
His parents went through a pretty nasty divorce when he was a kid. And so he knew, you know, what not to do. And so again, like it was, it really was a, it was a great, great choice for him. Very complimentary to his, his skills, his personal background. And so he started this mediation practice. And then a couple years after me going back in corporate, Again, I just, didn't want to be in that environment. And so I, you know, I left the assignment that I was on and went to coaching school. And because I had been previously divorced and again, had a lot of passion about that, used mediation. I joined him in the business. And so we started working together for the second time.
[30:06]
Right? Mm-hmm.
And that was, the mediation practice was formed in 2008 and I joined him in 2010. And we've been working together for more than 17 years at this point for the second business. ⁓ And then earlier this year, I started another business and that's a Funderful experiences and ⁓ he is a partner.
Hahaha. Wow. Right. Yeah.
But really, he helps me with some of the back end stuff, does my books, and ⁓ helps me with some of the technology. But for the most part, ⁓ it's, I'm spearheading that. the mediation practice is still running and I'm still ⁓ active in that business, but we've automated so much of it that I was able to free up some time. ⁓ I still meet with prospective clients. when they're exploring working with us and I coach clients that want to coach with me, but then the rest of my time is focused on Funderful experiences. But we've been working together a lot of years and the key is job descriptions and ⁓ respect.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. My wife and I have worked together a handful of times as well. Most recently, we owned a toy store together. It's a brick and mortar toy store and we sold toys that didn't have batteries or a screen. ⁓ And I'll tell you what, it was super hard and super challenging ⁓ just because
Yeah, right. I bet.
You know, we both like doing things our own way at times and Trying to reconcile who does what? Was really hard. So I really love the idea of those job descriptions because I think it's like simple things like that can can go a long way in terms of Contributing to the longevity of a business Cheryl I want to ask you about Funderful experience and
Yeah.
⁓ What that is if you could explain that to me in a couple sentences, what would it be?
I mean, I'm from the East Coast. I don't know about a couple sentences. well, ⁓ you had asked me a little while ago about, my earlier experiences growing up and how that shaped me. And I feel like, so there's a couple of things, the same, the same way I finally got out to California where certain things aligned. and certain things just felt like the logical next step. It's the same actually with Funderful experiences. I moved to California, I was 48, ⁓ no human children, self-employed, work from home. So no built-in community. We didn't know anybody out here when we moved.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Right. Right? Right.
and no natural ways of integrating into the community, right? You know, usually you'd meet people through your work or you'd meet your children's friends, parents or something like that. But we didn't have any of those opportunities. So a little after we got here, we bought our house, we settled in and then it was the pandemic. And so for, you know, two plus years, it was a lot of self quarantine and again, pretty isolating.
Hmm.
And it was, luckily my husband is my best friend, ⁓ but it was kind of lonely to not be able to have friends and be active in the community, not see people interact with them, pretty social. ⁓ And so that was happening. The other thing that was happening even sooner is just doing a lot of soul searching. ⁓ My father passed away when he was 58.
Right?
and I'm 56. And so I'm kind of feel I'm in a part of life where I'm really starting to be very aware of, ⁓ you know, time, you know, your time here is fine. And you don't know how much time you have. ⁓ I spent a lot of years ⁓ keeping myself small and being afraid.
Wow. Wow.
to do things, even things that I loved because I was afraid of being judged or failing or looking like an idiot or, you know, all kinds of stuff. So that's kind of happening. I would say ever since maybe my mid fifties, but all of this is kind of happening, you know, in parallel. ⁓ I've always wanted to have a big group of women friends, ⁓ supportive ones.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Over the years, I've experienced a lot of women who were very clicky, gossipy, ⁓ know, not supportive and uplifting, ⁓ really ⁓ women who were just kind of scary, couldn't be trusted. You know, again, I was always uncomfortable around groups of women ever since some of these other experiences, but it's something that I still really want.
Right.
a group of women friends who really care about each other, support each other, have fun together. So that's kind of happening at the same time. And then the other piece is that I've been working in the mediation practice now for myself personally for 15 years. It's meaningful, but I'm just looking for something more or different. This is the longest I've ever been in the same job. And, you know, ⁓ if you're in the same company, maybe you're getting promoted or new opportunities, but I've been in the same role for so many years and I'm ⁓ just looking for something new ⁓ and something that's very meaningful to me in this stage of life. Because I couldn't find these women, because I couldn't find this community, I decided I would build it myself.
Mm-hmm.
And so
Mm-hmm.
last year I went back to school and I got a certificate in event planning from San Diego State University. And I added that to my business skills, my coaching skills, and I used it to ⁓ create Funderful experiences. So that's, it's more than a couple of sentences, but this is something that I, I feel like I was always meant to do it.
Okay? Right?
It never was on the radar, but all these different things were happening. And it right now felt for me like the right time, because if not now, then when, you know.
Yeah, I agree. think first I think that's an amazing story. Just all the things come together at it seems like at the right time. ⁓ Cheryl, if you had to maybe pick out one or two key things that led you to fully committing to starting this thing because you know, part of the conversations I have with people ⁓ on this podcast is there's this anxiety, this nervousness to make a commitment to yourself or to maybe taking the job that you think might not be the right job or you just a series of things and people feel very stuck in their life. For you when you kicked off this business like were there some key things that really sort of kicked you in the butt and said okay I'm doing this now. I'm going to get this certificate. I'm going to start this business. And if it goes well, great. And if it doesn't go well, then at least I tried.
⁓ you know, ⁓ for the first time in my life, I'm not pursuing a job or a career or the income level. ⁓ Obviously, you know, I don't want to be in business for free. But I'm just using my ⁓ my intuition.
Mm-hmm. Right. Right?
what feels right for me and what I'm building is it's something personal, not just business. So ⁓ it's very meaningful to me. And ⁓ there are certainly days that I'm like, why did I do this? Or I should be winding down or getting ready to retire. Like, ⁓ what am I doing to myself? Because it's a lot of work. But I just really feel strongly, feel... ⁓
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
hold to do it. I also see it as something that I can do way into retirement, you know, because it's it's meaningful. ⁓ One aspect of the business is local. It's a local in-person membership community, and that's beneficial, you know, no matter how old I am. As far as the commitment to do it, it's, you know, in different times in my life, if something gets hard, I quit.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[40:01]
And some of that came from growing up where no one really held me accountable. ⁓ So, you know, if I did soccer and I didn't like it anymore, I would just quit. You my parents didn't say, well, you have to honor your commitment and do it for the year or something like that. So it was kind of like, whatever, I'm just not going to do this anymore. What I'm doing is I'm going against all of the fears and all of the
I see. Yeah.
things that I maybe used to do. ⁓ And I have a commitment to do it differently and just to go right through the fear, even when I'm scared to keep going. ⁓ Even when I'm having a bad day and I want to quit, to know that it just I'm just tired, or I need to just get away from my desk and take a break or go do something else that puts gas in the tank, you know, and, and ⁓ then go back to it. after or go back to it the next day or something like that. So, you know, this is really I'm in a very I feel like I'm in a very different place. I feel a lot more calm about this. You know, I'm nervous because I'm really putting myself out there in a lot of ways that I never would have done before. But I believe in this so much. And it's so it's so meaningful for me personally. And I've spoken to a lot of other women.
Mm-hmm. Right.
who are looking for the same thing. And so I just feel a pull to be the one to see it through. I don't know if that makes any sense.
No, yeah, totally does. It totally does. I mean, for the audience listening, ⁓ what are some ways or tips that you've used to help you push through that fear? Because I know for many people, it is that fear that is holding them back from maybe taking a job that's... different than what they've done for 10, 15 years or starting their own business or maybe even picking up a new hobby or going to a community center where they don't know anybody. There's just a lot of that that's happening now based on the economy and how things are going. But for you, what are some things that you've done to sort of get you over that hump so that you can start to make these commitments to yourself?
Well, ⁓ first of all, I have a mantra, if it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you. ⁓ so a lot of these things, again, I'm just drawing on a lot of past experiences and also my coaching skills and my life skills. As far as...
Mmm, I love that. Yeah.
Most people don't wake up one day and decide to just start something new or make a big change. Usually there's something else that's happening in their life that kind of like force them to make a change. You know, maybe, you know, a divorce, you know, kind of jolts you, you have to make a change, right? Because the marriage is ending and you have to figure out, you know, what are you going to do next? And ⁓ your identity shifting and things like that. It's the same thing with jobs.
Right. Yeah.
⁓ you know, I, I always know again from the past and from my training, when you get to the other side and you look back, that thing that happened was a gift. And because if it hadn't happened, it wouldn't have been the inspiration either to, you know, to survive or to make that, that next move.
Mm-hmm. Right.
So I believe part of it is just, believe and I know there's something good on the other side and it's also enjoying the journey. ⁓ Every day is gonna present some new challenge or you'll meet some new person or you'll have some new experience. I actually think that's pretty good. ⁓ So yeah, so I'm not afraid of that. I actually welcome that. I love that. I think that as far as...
Yeah, for sure. I do too.
you know, the inspiration like when you when you're feeling like you want to quit or you're feeling very afraid or you're feeling unsure of yourself. That's all normal. It's good to have a good support system around you. I have a great partner. So when I'm feeling very down, he really helps boost me back up, you know, he reminds me of, ⁓ you know, how great I am and and how what I have to offer and he reminds me that, you know, I
Mm-hmm.
basically that I'm better than I am thinking that I am when I'm feeling pretty down. So it's good to have support. I have a couple of friends that do the same and I do that for them because I believe it. It's just sometimes when you're feeling afraid, you're doubting yourself. ⁓ The other thing is sometimes it's ⁓ useful for me to take a break when I'm feeling very overwhelmed or scared or vulnerable. I just put it aside and I go volunteer.
Right, right.
⁓ or I go do something to help somebody else because doing those things just has such, you just get such a good feeling and it distracts you from your problems. And it also again, boost your confidence. ⁓ you know, it's a win-win you're helping somebody else and they're helping you back. And so I feel that it's useful sometimes to get out of your environment and go shift and do something else.
Mm-hmm.
that takes your mind off it. And that might even be gardening or taking a walk with your dog or talking to a friend on the phone. I find a lot of that useful or volunteering, a pretty active volunteer in a couple different places. ⁓ that's important. Stop focusing on your own stuff. Shift, go do something that makes you feel good. And that often will help you have the energy to look at things differently when you sit back down at your desk. And then The other thing is I do a lot of I coach myself. So I'm aware of the fear and the fear by the way, I know, you know, this might be a little too out there for you know, it's like, the fear is showing up to keep you safe. When you are aware that there's fear, it's a it's okay. It's like you can kind of make friends with that fear.
Okay. Mm-hmm.
you're aware, okay, something's like scary and big and different happening, I'm afraid. So the fear would normally keep you from even trying that thing or doing that thing because it wants to keep you safe from failing or from feeling rejection or judgment. I just kind of coach myself. So when I feel that it's like I'm having this whole inner monologue. You're good. you have what it takes, you can do this, you can get through this. So kind of give myself a little pep talk. And so I'm constantly coaching myself, which is beneficial to kind of work through a lot of those things as they're coming up.
Yeah. Yeah, I definitely try to coach myself. Sometimes it doesn't work out as great as I'd like. you know, if if you don't have that self self care and self love, you're not going to get anywhere. Cheryl, tell me a little bit about the format of your business and how it works, because there is a physical component to it. in addition to this community component, explain to me sort of like how everything comes together.
Well, my signature program is an in-person membership community. And ⁓ I have a venue that I rent and it's private venue. once a month I host a gathering and the members come and it's two hours, you know, on a Tuesday night from six to eight. And there's a...
Okay. Mm-hmm.
there's like a light structure to it. So there's certain rituals that we do every month. There's always like a meat and potatoes, like a topic that I lead. And then there's group discussion afterwards. There's some silly fun activities that we do just to laugh and get to know each other better. There's some, some gratitude and celebrating wins. And there are
Mm-hmm. Okay. Right.
certain things we do to close it out. So it's basically, and people ask me like, can you describe what these are? And it's so hard because I'm not aware of this existing anywhere else. just kind of dreamed it up. it's a community of women that are very open-minded and they're looking for more meaning and depth in their lives. They're looking for more fun and joyful moments.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
They're in the same age group as me, 50s and 60s, where they're reflecting on their lives. They have great lives, they raise children, they've done lots of things and traveled. So it's really not about fixing their life. It's about how can we make this chapter of life vibrant, joyful, all possibilities there, fully alive? How can we live fully?
Mm-hmm.
because there's a lot of ⁓ perceptions that mid middle aged people are just slowing down and you know, kind of getting ready to just retire and sit around or, you know, just play golf or knit which there's nothing wrong with those things but you know, like just really slow things down, not try new experiences. But I don't believe in that and I don't want that. And these women don't want that either. And so we're intentionally shaping what this chapter of life is going to be like for us. And these gatherings are the kind of the grounding and uplifting part of it. You know, the consistent presence in our lives where we're learning and growing and being together and having fun again, so that we can carry that good energy into other parts of our lives. So
[50:28]
Mm-hmm.
So that's the in-person part of it. And it's brand new. ⁓ Back in the middle of October, I had a preview event where women came to experience what the membership would be like. And then ⁓ I've had women join and we got together two weeks ago at a restaurant, just casually off the books to get to know each other and talk about what we want this to be like. And I wanted input from them. And we're going to have our first monthly gathering ⁓ in early December. So.
Uh-huh. Okay? Mm-hmm.
So this is all brand new, but I'm really, really excited about it. And I love the input that I received from these women because I feel like we're all rowing in the same direction and ⁓ looking for the same kinds of things. So I'm even more excited to host them and to share things with them, insights ⁓ and tools that will help them, you know, have the kind of mid-lives that they're looking for. And then...
Right.
I write a weekly newsletter called The Uplift and it goes out every Thursday morning. It's a free newsletter and in it is, ⁓ you know, pretty vulnerable. I share stories from my own life. I share anonymized stories from some of my clients lives. And then I offer tips and tools for how I addressed whatever was the challenge or how I coach them to address some of these challenges so that the readers.
Okay. Mm-hmm.
hopefully can resonate and use those things in their own lives. Also in the newsletter, I have a couple of reflection prompts, just things to kind of get people thinking if they want to journal about them, it's a great way to do that. And then I give them the weekly uplift where I actually give them a challenge and something to try that week. And it's really all meant to build online community and just to spread this kind of message with a broader population. So the newsletter is national. And then I also have my private coaching practice, which is available to women anywhere. ⁓ You know, I do the divorce coaching in my primary business, but in Thunderfall, it's more midlife issues, such as, you know, identity shifts, empty nesters, it's people nearing retirement or just retired. It's people who are
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
have divorced or are widows, ⁓ you know, or have just moved to this area. A lot of people retire and move here. So there's lots of different identity shifts and things that are happening for people, major life transitions in this stage of life. And the coaching is private one-on-one to help coach them through it.
Mm-hmm. Wow, that's a lot of things you've got going on, Cheryl, with that. That's a lot.
It's a lot. I mean, we go from Jersey, we go big.
I definitely am not in your demographic. I am in my 40s and a man with kids still. And so a lot of the things that you're talking about ⁓ don't fall into the purview of things I think about every day. But for women that are in that sweet spot of your clients, friends, colleagues, What can they expect out of an experience like this and why should people invest their time and money into something like this? Because one of the things I'm trying to do with this podcast is show people the possibility of things like coaches or events or communities or skill sets. But for something like Funderful that you provide, what can women that's in your sweet spot expect out of these events?
it's important for anybody, right, to exercise and take care of their health through exercise or eating healthy. ⁓ My gatherings help people take care of their wellbeing and their mental health. So it isn't therapy, but it's therapeutic. Joy and fun contribute to our overall wellbeing.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
having face to face social interactions versus just scrolling and on Instagram or something like that. there's a lot of health benefits to, to being together, to socializing. And there are a lot of health benefits to socializing on a deeper level, right? We come across people in our lives where it's, Hey, did you see that game where you're chit chatting about the weather? You know, you never really go below the surface. and that's lovely.
Absolutely.
depending on the situation, but the women that are part of this community are seeking something more deep and more meaningful, more meaningful conversation. We don't talk about politics or religion or anything divisive. We talk about things that we are experiencing in our lives. We also talk about things that are positive, you know.
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
it's uplifting to be around other people who are positive. And when you're around someone positive, you feel like a million bucks. lifts you up, gives you energy, makes you feel happy. So I think that while it's not the only focus of the gatherings for mental health, there is absolutely something about these gatherings contributing and improving your overall. mental health and well-being, your joy and your happiness. The other thing is, I'm old school. I didn't grow up with a smartphone. And so while I'm very tech savvy, I'm finding it to be a bit of a bore to be scrolling all day and looking at other people's highlight reels. I just love in-person connection.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
and the beautiful energy of being with people and experiencing something with them. So that's what this community is all about. It's taking a break from the phone. And we don't take our phones out during the gatherings, we're present with each other and really having an experience that's memorable, meaningful, deep, and also silly and fun. So I would say.
Yeah. Gotta cover all your bases.
Yeah, absolutely.
Cheryl, one of the things I've been thinking about as we're having this conversation is to get people to start things that may be painful or a challenge. you talked about trying to get past the how's the game, how's the weather types of conversations to more meaningful conversations. How do you do that in an effective way? Because that's one of the things I've been trying to work on as well as not just, hearing people, but also taking that information and then trying to be able to ingest that in a way where I can actually contribute back to them. So it's like,
Yeah.
⁓ And getting to that one, one or two levels deeper. But for you and, this, and this business and this community, how are you helping these women get to that sort of like state where they are comfortable and they feel safe and sharing things that are a lot more meaningful.
Yeah, of course. There's a couple of things. First, you have to have an environment where people feel safe and where there's trust. ⁓ And that doesn't, you don't just snap your fingers and it happens. You have to intentionally create that and you have to build that and people have to feel comfortable over time. ⁓ And so one of the things that we do is we have ⁓ the connected hearts promise.
Right. Yep.
And so Connected Hearts is the name of the membership. we have, it's kind of like a code of conduct. It's certain ways that we behave in the space and everybody agrees to it. And we read it out loud in the gatherings. And it's basically, you know, everything from keeping confidential what was shared in the space to treating each other with respect, not interrupting each other.
Okay?
not monopolizing all the airtime, being open, curious, kind, you know, so there's, there's a set of principles that everyone agrees to in terms of how we're going to behave in the space. So that's, that's important. One of our values is also inclusion. And it's making everybody feel like they belong because as I experienced a number of times throughout my life,
Mm-hmm.
you know, people form cliques and other people feel like they can't break in or they don't fit in or they're not welcome. ⁓ And so, again, it's very important to me that this is a space where everybody feels welcome and belongs, even if you're not going to like everybody, right? It's not everybody likes everybody, but we're all we are all respecting each other. And we all ⁓
[1:00:11]
Right.
we welcome the different viewpoints and the different life experiences because we're all treating each other with respect and being curious and open about other people and their lives. So I think that's really important, the trust and the safety and the confidentiality. The other thing is, ⁓ if you're asking someone else all these questions, but they're not asking you any questions,
Mm-hmm.
it doesn't really create an environment where there's reciprocity, you know, and sharing. we have certain things that we do where they have the floor. No one interrupts them, talks over them, disrespects them. There's just a big level of respect here. ⁓ And then the other thing, what you were asking, Savan you know, how do you
Mm-hmm.
ask people the questions where it goes more meaningful. You you're not asking people about their childhood traumas. It's not deep like that. That's not the purpose of this. That would probably be more appropriate for therapy and that this is not there. You know, but all kidding aside, first of all, when someone feels safe and someone feels like they're not judged,
Right. Right. Yeah, right.
they're gonna be more willing to share. And we don't force anybody to share anything they're not comfortable with. So that's another thing. And no one is ⁓ ridiculed or judged by not sharing, right? It's whatever feels comfortable for you. And as trust is built, people will share more and more. If one person sharing and everyone else is sharing too, that also builds trust. The other thing is asking people open-ended questions and not... and being quiet and letting them answer without saying, I know what you mean. And then going off on your own thing. It's asking them a question, listening, and really hearing what they're saying, being present, not looking at your phone, not being distracted, right? Giving them the time and showing an interest in them. And then there are ways that you can repeat back to them what they said. in a way that is natural. ⁓ you know, I have a something that I learned in coaching school, clarify, acknowledge and validate. Someone says something to you, you say it back to them, not verbatim, you say it in your own words, but you're saying it to clarify that what they said is what you heard. And if you missed something, then they will jump in and correct you will know what I really meant was blank.
Mm-hmm.
⁓ so you're saying and you say it back and they say, yes, that's what I, that's what I, that's what I was saying. And then, so you've clarified, right? They feel heard because you basically said back to them what they said to you in your own words. Then the next part of that is acknowledging, wow, that sounds really hard. Anybody in that situation would have felt the exact same way. You're validating them. So you're not saying, I know what you mean. I feel that way too. You don't know what they mean, only they do, right? Or only they know how they feel or felt. So, but you're acknowledging and validating what they said. Anybody in your situation would feel that same way. You have every right to feel the way you felt. So again, they feel heard. And by making this kind of ⁓ communication natural,
Mmm. Mmm.
people really feel seen, heard, they feel valued. ⁓ And again, it builds a lot of that trust. So I know that was probably more than you were asking, but I hope it was useful.
No, that's great. It's one of those things that as we get older, I am constantly thinking about how these dynamics are changing in my life. And do you think from your experience as a coach now that it's harder for people to make friends with other people?
I do. Yeah, I do. I think ⁓ it's interesting. I'm a member of a local women's club and it's a service organization. There's some social aspects to it, but it's hundred year old club and it's mostly, we go and volunteer at different nonprofits, you know, and the
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
there are business meetings once a month. And if somebody, there's a woman who's just checking it out, they can come and just sit in a business meeting, you know, decide if they want to be part of it. It's not a hard sell, right? We don't come in like strong arm anybody. It's just if they want to join, we want them to be part of it. And ⁓ we had a meeting a couple of weeks ago, and I'm on the membership committee. And this woman came in and I sat next to her and she said,
Yeah. Right.
You know, I'm just checking it out. I'm not a member. And before I could say anything else to her, the next thing out of her mouth was, and I don't know if I'm going to join. Like in other words, don't try to sell me. I was like, yeah, but like I picked up on her energy, she clearly had walls up, right? She was very guarded. She was distrustful of what this was. Are we going to sell her?
Right. Nobody likes that feeling. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How did she get there in the first place then? Did somebody just bring her?
or not. She must have heard about it and she just I don't know but but this is what I mean. So to your point She showed up She was curious about it. She obviously was interested enough to to come out and be there but yet she still had walls up and And you know, made a joke and you know, and you know tried to make her laugh, but she's really serious. So
Yeah.
And then afterwards, the next day I sent her an email and said, again, it was so nice to meet you. Do you have any questions? I'm happy to be a point of contact. And she didn't reply to me. And so when you say, it harder for people to make friends? I think that if you're closed, if you're a closed person and you're not in situations where there's other people around you, it's different.
Mm-hmm.
it maybe is more difficult to make friends because you're closed and you don't even have anybody to go talk to. I think that if you set an intention that you want to make friends and you get yourself out of the house, even if it's sitting in a coffee shop, but you're in the presence of other people or you have a dog and you walk the dog every morning, we've met people because we're on the same pattern. We're walking our dog at the same time we wave, know, some of them
Mm-hmm.
we've actually gotten together with, hey, do you wanna get together? Like you feel like you start to get to know them. So you can make friends with people anywhere, but you have to have the right mindset and you have to be open and you have to be open to all opportunities that are around you. ⁓ So it's not like when we were young.
Right?
and we went to school every day and it was easy to be friends with people because you were with them for six hours every single day, you know, in class, or you're going to an office and your office mates, some of them, you you complain with them or you go and you're on the softball team with them or you go to happy hour, you become friends. If you don't have those built-in, ⁓ you know, places,
yeah. Right? Right?
it may be more challenging. As you get older, it might be more challenging, but part of it is also because you're more guarded and ⁓ shy or uncomfortable. You don't know how to talk to a stranger, strike up the conversation. You don't know how to break the ice ⁓ or have a conversation that maybe is a little bit more meaningful than, just see that game last night. Which by the way, that could be the intro to a friendship.
Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Right? Especially if you're talking about the cubs, ⁓ but, ⁓ you know, but I think it's possible. I think that more effort is required. And even after you make those connections, just like the plants, you need constant care and feeding. You can't just meet somebody once for coffee and be friends. You have to see that person regularly. ⁓ My thing is always at least once a month, you have to see them to build a relationship.
Hahaha!
can't just be texting, you know, and you have to have meaningful experiences with each other, make memories, you know, do things, ⁓ have experiences, right, where you're making these bonds. ⁓ So I think it's possible, I think it just requires time, effort, intention, and ⁓ nurturing and care.
Yeah, the intention is huge. I spoke about this in an earlier podcast. I can't remember which one, but the older that I've gotten, the harder it's been to stay up to date with my friends. And I think I do a pretty bad job of it now. My wife is, we were talking about something and she was like, I don't think you're that good of a friend. And at first I was like taking it aback I was like, I think I'm a great friend. But the more I think about it, I'm like, I'm probably like a mediocre friend at best just because, we live out two hours south of Seattle. So we're not super close to where we grew up. And I get so fixated on things that at times like I don't even call people back and I'm just like, man, I am probably a pretty horrible friend right now. But the intentionality like you were talking about of putting that time and commitment is so important to how we grow as people because friends, your kids will eventually leave, your parents, you know, God bless them. We hope they live forever, but they'll eventually die and what you've got left are Essentially your friends, right? Like those are the people that that will be there and so I love what you're talking about of of developing friends and being there and actually going out and trying to find new friends Because I don't think people go out to the grocery store for a walk Thinking today's the day i'm going to make five new friends, right? Like it never happens
[1:11:01]
Yeah. Yeah, but you, I mean, you can set the intention this year, I'm gonna make three good friends. And I'm telling you, if you make that intention and you take the consistent actions for that to happen, it's gonna happen. And it's gonna happen probably in places that you wouldn't have expected. And so, you know, the thing about being what you said, like calling people back or, you know,
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I feel like life is really sped up. There's so much coming at us all the time, with the 24 hour news cycle and social media and all our responsibilities and caring for children, working, having a relationship with our spouse. There's a lot on our plates and it's really all about, I think, making sure that you don't have too much on your plate and prioritizing what's there.
Yeah.
And so even if, you know, if I'm in a conversation with somebody and they mentioned that their birthday is coming up, I'll ask them, oh, what day is it? And I'll go home and I'll put it on my calendar as a recurring yearly appointment. So, cause my memory, sometimes for me, my memory is not fantastic. I have to write things down or I have to put them on the calendar. Same thing watering the plants. I have to have an app, you know, but.
Yeah, me too. Me too.
There are good ways to use the technology and that's one of them. And so this way, even though somebody might say, well, that's not sincere. You schedule your friend's birthdays on your calendar. I disagree because if I see it come up and I'm the one that calls them that day or sends them a text, happy birthday. It's very meaningful for them that I thought of them. Doesn't matter what I used to remember what the birthday was. It's that I remembered at all.
Yep.
And it's the same thing about calling people back. ⁓ I don't know if this happens for you, but I have friends who only communicate with me via text. I have other friends that communicate email, some call, some, it's like some Instagram messenger or something. Like there's all these different ⁓ ways people have their choice communication.
Mm-hmm.
It's like you kind of have to be willing to figure out what theirs is and meet them there. Cause personally, I don't like texting and I don't like messengering. You know, I like good old fashioned pick up the phone. But if I have a great friend who I really like and I value the relationship and she's not a phone gal, she's a texter. Okay. I'll text with her. As long as we can still get together in person.
Agreed. Right.
which is what I am looking for in the friendship is some meaningful face-to-face. And she's into it. Again, you just meet people where they are. You have to decide, are you getting something out of that relationship? Is it one-sided or are you getting something? If I have to text in order to keep this relationship with this person that I care about, I'm willing to do it.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you've got...
So we all decide what's important to us and what we're willing to do, if that makes sense.
Cheryl, we're sort of getting to the end of our conversation here, but I've got two more open-ended questions for you. ⁓ You know, as you think ahead 10 years in your life here with Funderful and all these other endeavors you have, ⁓ how would you describe what you want to get out of your life in the next 10 years?
Well, I don't want to rush 10 more years, so could tell you that.
Hahaha
You know, I just, like I said, my dad passed away at 58. I'm 56. My grandmother, my grandmother passed away a whole bunch of years ago, but I saw her as a very outgoing, social, vivacious woman. And as she got older, she had, you know, pretty bad arthritis and she, she just kind of like stopped going out.
Yeah. Yeah.
She sat in her chair all the time, didn't wanna leave the house. My grandfather had passed away years before. So she was on her own and she was in Florida. And I just, was like sad for me to watch that anytime I would see her or talk to her that she would just be home and that she wasn't living the way I remembered her when I was younger. ⁓ And I'm watching some other family members on that same path. So for me,
Right. Right.
I already have a clear message. I don't want that. I don't want to have a life like that. I want to be very active. I want to be fully living life, enjoying my life, however many years I'm here. And so 10 more years from here, I hope I'm still running Thunderful. I hope that it is thousands of members, ⁓ that there's a movement, that it started up in other states. that it's really that there's an online, because I'm thinking about an online membership as well, where if you're not in the local area, but you're liking what this is all about, that there will be a way for you to be connected. Again, we can use technology for good, you know, and still be able to see each other and connect. But I just wanted to keep growing as large as it's supposed to get. And so long as every day, it's still meaningful. for me and is bringing me joy, then I wanna keep going.
⁓ Cheryl, if you had relatives or friends that watched this podcast, our conversation five years from now, what do you hope they get out of it?
if they if they watch this five years from now. I hope they have a good laugh. Like, look, remember when you were just starting and now look at you. I mean, I hope that, I hope the energy that they're experiencing five years from now is exactly the same as this excitement and energy that, that I have.
You Awesome. Last one word answer questions. Are you ready? All right. Favorite plant.
You asked me that. That is this, a weeping, weeping fig.
I want to get it for the record. ⁓ Weeping Fig, Favorite Tiki Drink.
⁓ that is a jet pilot.
Whoa, okay, that sounds dangerous. What is that?
Jetpilot, it is three different kinds of rum, lime juice, ⁓ is ⁓ filarnum, cinnamon simple syrup, and gastorabitters.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow, that sounds really yummy. I've never had it.
It's good. It's pretty potent. Yeah.
⁓ favorite Cubs player either now or in the past
Anthony Rizzo.
Ooh, good choice, good choice. ⁓ Favorite holiday for you.
Favorite holiday is Thanksgiving because it doesn't matter what religion you are. Everybody's celebrating the same thing.
Yeah. Oh, I love I love that. I might steal that as well. I might steal that as well. All right, Cheryl, well that wraps up all the questions I had. I just want to say I've appreciated you for coming out and sharing your story and telling us about Funderful We will put any pictures that you want of your plants. into either the segment or as a link. I will also put a link to your business in the comments. So for anybody that is listening that wants to sign up can click on that link in the comments. And I wish you well, my friend, and happy Thanksgiving.
Thank you, Savan. It was Funderful talking with you. Thanks for the opportunity.
Of course. Alright, you take it easy. I'll talk to you later. Alright, bye bye.
You too. Bye.